Preterism Preterists, to apply the words of William Cobbett, author of
the Grammer of the English Language, are people who are "unwilling
to treat with simplicity that which, if made somewhat of a mystery, would make
them appear more learned than the mass of people". Their
obfuscations, complications, and machinations of the English (and Greek)
languages are deliberate, and intended for one purpose and one purpose only: to
confuse the hell out of people to the point where they give up trying to follow
the "logic" and just end up trusting that the speaker at least can follow his
own logic and therefore must be correct, learned, and know what he's talking
about. The fact is, they are not, and once you cut thru their bullshit (and it
is nothing but pure bullshit), they really have no foundation upon which to
stand. These essays of mine are designed to help you see the truth about
Preterism. In short, Preterism is a last-ditch attempt by some super-fundy Christians to save their savior from his own false prophecies. It claims that the Second Coming prophecies within the New Testament were fulfilled (invisibly) within the first century, thus presto-chango! No more false prophet!
A brief review of Gary DeMar's book "Last Days Madness", pointing out a small sampling of the many unfounded assumptions found within the book. by Mark Smith Nov. 7, 1994 ASSUMPTION: the supposition that something is true. A fact or statement taken for granted. On page 98, bottom two sentences, Gary quotes from Kirk, saying that Jesus was describing a local event in Matt. 24, Luke 19, and not the second coming. Up to this point, he has offered nothing to support this claim, and introduces the claim as if out of thin air. The claim needs support, as it claims Matt. 24 "makes it clear that Jesus was describing a local event..." What Mt. 24 makes "clear" is that "...immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days" stars will fall / ALL the tribes of the earth will mourn and THEY (all the tribes) will SEE JC (where?) in the clouds, and then the elect will be gathered from all over the entire earth. THIS is what is clear to the reader, and even though Gary offers harebrained "explanations" of these much later in the book, his statement, placed here without any support, is at this point only an assumption. On page 117, middle of second paragraph, he starts to use a phrase that becomes commonplace later in the book. He starts to get the reader used to substituting Gary's pet phrase "coming in judgment" for the more common phrase, "Second Coming." Until this concept has had some evidence to back it up, at this point in the book, it remains merely an assumption. Page 120, last paragraph, Gary calls Titus "God's representative." Once again, merely an assumption at this point. Page 27, last paragraph, Gary writes of 1 Peter 4:7, that the "end of all things" meant the Old Covenant passing away. A reader of 1 Peter would conclude, from verses 1:4-5, that it rather refers to the heaven myth. A reader would be left hanging with an unanswered question. Page 56, about 4th sentence, Gary writes that the Old Covenant came to an end in 70 AD. Why 70 AD? Why not 33 AD when Jesus died and the temple curtain was supposedly torn from top to bottom? No direct evidence is offered to support ANY exact date. He is assuming a date without any evidence being presented to the reader. On page 57, he quotes Milton Terry as saying that the temple being destroyed is what was in mind in Heb. 12:26, "shaking of heaven and earth." Besides being guilty of attempted mind reading, this weird interpretation is also presented without any explanation, thus, another mere assumption. Page 58, middle paragraph, he says, "we must conclude that the idea of 'coming' in this context is different from the way many contemporary Christians understand the concept of 'coming.'" Gary ASSUMES we MUST conclude that. Well, I conclude something totally different! I conclude that Jesus screwed up in his so-called prophecies of returning!!! Page 73, middle paragraph, Gary says the Greek word used there means the inhabited earth. Then he goes on to ASSUME that it's not the inhabited earth, but just a small part of it: the Roman Empire; and then he ASSUMES that JC would return after the gospel had been preached to the Roman Empire, and then he ASSUMES that that return would be a "return in judgment upon Jerusalem," and not the BIG second coming. I say, a stack of cards, no matter how high, is still a stack of cards. Just because the ignorant Holy Spirit didn't know that anyone else on earth was alive at that time outside the boundaries of The Roman Empire, doesn't excuse OUR ignorance, for WE KNOW BETTER- we know MORE than Gary's "holy spirit" because we KNOW that more people existed outside rather than inside The Roman Empire. Further assumptions, which I won't take the time to elaborate on, are also found on the following pages: 74, 91, 92, 132, 138, 154, 157, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 182, 204, 227, 291, 292, 306, 314, 315, 317, 318, 328, 329, 349. CONCLUSION: I think the reason no reputable scholar has bothered to blast this book and the Preterist idea into kingdom come, is that they can't stop laughing long enough to take it seriously. Sorry, but if this is a fair representation of the mighty Preterist view, I'm very disappointed. ******************
Figurative Language to The Rescue
But refuse foolish and ignorant
Many doctrines, peculiar to certain cults, would fall were it not for their wild and unfounded SPECULATIONS over "hidden meanings" supposedly buried within verses otherwise considered perfectly literal these past two thousand years. Cults have managed to make literal what others had always taken as figurative, and figurative what others had always taken for literal. Speculations over hidden meanings or obscure verses, though amusing at times, is clearly and WITHOUT figurative language soundly condemned by the Apostle Paul. History has born out the correctness of Paul's prediction that engaging in speculations would lead to endless quarrels, as evidenced by how these cults have splintered and divided over the years. Once the Pandora's box of rampant speculations is opened, there is no closing it.
This is what the Preterist movement, among others, is finding out the hard way. Since there are no set rules or regulations for determining what IS or IS NOT figurative, every man is his own judge, doing what seems right to him in his own eyes. Jesus will return in the clouds? Zap! They are now FIGURATIVE clouds. "Every eye will see him" when he returns? ZAP! Those are now FIGURATIVE eyes. Jesus' body walked out of the tomb? ZAP! That was a FIGURATIVE body. And on it goes. Forever. With any doctrine or belief. And thus will this sect continue to mutate and evolve, eventually morphing into the REAL experts in figurazation: the Gnostics of old, who, through figurative language could lie their way out of any Roman persecution.
Pieces of The Preterist Puzzle Protrude Profusely (i.e. Some Things Just Don't Fit!) (Mark Smith, 11/95 & 6/00)
There is a faction in Christianity (what a surprise) that has taken a new tact towards trying to explain away the false prophecies in the New Testament concerning the second coming of Jesus. Rather than saying that these prophecies are not saying what they obviously are saying (the standard Christian cop-out), this group freely admits that, yes, Jesus promised to return within one generation of 33 AD. Their catch is that Jesus did indeed come back, in 70 AD, but the reason nobody saw him is because he was invisible. Sort of like the other night when I had Jimmy Hoffa and Elvis over for dinner, and nobody saw them, because they were invisible too.
Of course, like all Christian groups, this group has already subdivided into several warring camps. Two of the several divisions are known as Full Preterists, and Partial Preterists. I will deal with both of these groups in this short essay. What I intend to show is that their explanation goes against their own Bible, as well as common sense. Obviously, I can’t PROVE an invisible Jesus DIDN’T come back in 70 AD, but neither can they prove an invisible unicorn is not standing behind you the reader at this very moment.
********************
Greatest Woe in History?For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Matthew 24: 21)
Jesus predicted that at his second coming, there would be disasters such as never before seen, nor ever to be matched. This being the case, the Preterists have a hard time fitting this part of Jesus’ prophecy into the era of 70 AD. As everyone (except the Preterists) seems to know, no such catastrophes affected the entire world at that time. Of course, if they were INVISIBLE catastrophes, that would explain it!
Nothing happened in 70 AD that even came close to the raw body count of Noah’s Flood, where it is claimed that the loving Biblegod murdered the entire population of Earth, save eight. This being the case, how come no one but modern Preterists seem to have noticed that the entire population of our planet (save maybe one or two) got wiped out in 70 AD??? It sure would be nice if they would come up with some evidence to back up this claim. Of course, the evidence could be invisible…
Jesus also predicted that his tribulation would forever hold the world’s record for blood & guts. This is another claim that seems hard (and distasteful!) to swallow, seeing how at most about a million Jews tragically died in 70 AD, as opposed to 6 million during World War Two, not to mention the twenty million Russians starved to death by Stalin, or the three million Cambodians murdered by Pol Pot. As gory as 70 AD was, it was by no means the greatest woe in human history.
Of Concern to Gentiles 1,000 Miles Away?On the other hand, as some Preterists claim, this “tribulation” was meant to be an event restricted to Israel concerning the Jews and their religion, centered around the environs of Jerusalem itself, why on earth would Paul trouble the poor Gentiles living a thousand miles away in Corinth??? Why would Paul give them many warnings to be ready, aware, awake, and avoid marriage in light of the second coming of Jesus??? In reality, a nuclear bomb could have obliterated the entire Middle East, and it would have had little if any impact whatsoever on the people in Rome or Greece. This is another piece of the Preterist puzzle that they fail to explain.
Invisible Signs are Not Signs!The Preterists pull an old Jehovah’s Witness trick, applying it to 70 AD, in that they claim that all sorts of signs DID take place, but that they were INVISIBLE signs!!! They claim things happened in a make-believe temple in their make-believe heaven by their make-believe gods. The real miracle in this stunt is that their followers believe them!!! There’s a sucker born (again) every minute, eh? But listen and study what Jesus says- it seems that signs by their very nature are visible.
And then shall 1appear the 2sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall 3all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall 4see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great 5glory. (Mt 24:30) 1) APPEAR:(Strong’s #5316) 1) to bring forth into the light, cause to shine, shed light 2) shine 2a) to shine, be bright or resplendent 2b) to become evident, to be brought forth into the light, come to view, appear 2b1) of growing vegetation, to come to light 2b2) to appear, be seen 2b3) exposed to view 2c) to meet the eyes, strike the sight, become clear or manifest 2c1) to be seen, appear 2d) to appear to the mind, seem to one's judgment or opinion (NOTE: This is the last and therefore, the least likely definition) It is obvious that which sheds light, shines, is resplendent, becomes evident, appears, is seen, is exposed to view, strikes the sight (all the primary meanings) is visible. An invisible rabbit pulled out of a hat is none of these things.
2) SIGN:(Strong's #4592) 1) a sign, mark, token 1a) that by which a person or a thing is distinguished from others and is known 1b) a sign, prodigy, portent, i.e. an unusual occurrence, transcending the common course of nature 1b1) of signs portending remarkable events soon to happen 1b2) of miracles and wonders by which God authenticates the men sent by him, or by which men prove that the cause they are pleading is God's A “sign” is a credential or proof. An "invisible sign" is almost a contradiction in terms. For a sign to have ANY value at all, it must be visible. An invisible sign that proves anything actually proves nothing.
3) ALL:(Strong’s #3956) AV - all 748, all things 170, every 117, all men 41, whosoever 31, everyone 28, whole 12, all manner of 11, every man 11, no + 3756 9, every thing 7, any 7, whatsoever 6, whosoever + 3739 + 302 3, always + 1223 3, daily + 2250 2, any thing 2, no + 3361 2, not tr 7, misc 26; 1243 1) individually 1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything 2) collectively 2a) some of all types ALL of the people on Earth are promised to witness this event, not just the rabble rousers living in Israel. This did not happen in 70 AD.
4) SEE:
(Strong’s #3700) optanomai {op-tan'-om-ahee} or optomai {op-tom-ahee} a (middle voice) prolonged form of the primary (middle voice) optomai {op'-tom-ahee}, which is used for it in certain tenses, and both as alternate of 3708; TDNT - 5:315,706; v AV - see 37, appear 17, look 2, show (one's) self 1, being seen 1; 58 1) to look at, behold 2) to allow one's self to be seen, to appear For them to "see" Jesus “appear” he must be visible.
5) GLORY:(Strong’s #1391) from the base of 1380; TDNT - 2:233,178; n f AV - glory 145, glorious 10, honour 6, praise 4, dignity 2, worship 1; 168 1) opinion, judgment, view 2) opinion, estimate, whether good or bad concerning someone 2a) in the NT always a good opinion concerning one, resulting in praise, honour, and glory 3) splendour, brightness 3a) of the moon, sun, stars 3b) magnificence, excellence, preeminence, dignity, grace 3c) majesty 3c1) a thing belonging to God 3c1) the kingly majesty which belongs to Him as supreme ruler, majesty in the sense of the absolute perfection of the deity 3c2) a thing belonging to Christ 3c2a) the kingly majesty of the Messiah 3c2b) the absolutely perfect inward or personal excellency of Christ; the majesty 3c3) of the angels 3c3a) as apparent in their exterior brightness 4) a most glorious condition, most exalted state 4a) of that condition with God the Father in heaven to which Christ was raised after He had achieved his work on earth 4b) the glorious condition of blessedness into which is appointed and promised that true Christians shall enter after their Saviour's return from heaven For "glory" to be SEEN by all the tribes of the earth, it should be very bright, thus easily visible. Note the references to things astronomically bright and readily apparent. This does not fit in at all with Preterist theory.
The SIGN of Jesus, whatever it was, would appear visibly in the sky, to been SEEN by ALL men on earth, resulting in their becoming depressed. Then, ALL the men of planet earth, just as they had visibly SEEN the "sign" will now visibly SEE an EXTREMELY bright and visible and well-advertised Jesus descending down from among the clouds. Something this bright and visible couldn't hide if it wanted to. Note all the various words that even in their definitions, use terms of absolute visibility: apparent, splendour, brightness sun, stars, see, appear, show, be seen, exterior brightness, light, shine, shed light, resplendent, come to view, to meet the eyes, strike the sight, become clear. There is no way something that is described thusly could have been done in secret in front of the entire world. The return of Jesus herein described was not some invisible, Jehovah-Witness type pie-in-the-sky. It was predicted to be the most visible world-wide event in history. This ties in very well with other terminology used by Jesus, such as the lightning analogy (Mt 24:27) that is VERY visible from one end of the sky to the other, to which he compares his coming. With lightning-like visibility, trumpets blaring, apparitions floating around visibly in the sky-- this does NOT seem to be describing the Preterist theory of an invisible, secret ceremony taking place in a galaxy, far far away.
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
IF |
|
|
Matthew 24 |
= |
1st Thessalonians |
|
|
AND |
|
|
1st Thessalonians |
= |
2nd Thessalonians |
|
|
THEN |
|
|
Matthew 24 |
= |
2nd Thessalonians |
I intend to show that this is the case. The Prophecy of Matthew 24 = The Prophecy of 2 Thessalonians. What is the big deal about that, you may ask. Thanks for asking. The "big deal" is that it totally disproves the Preterist position. You see, the prophecies in the letters to Thessalonica require fulfillment within the first century, before 71 AD to be precise, as the temple is assumed to be still standing within the era that these prophecies are due to take place, as well as the more obtuse fact that Paul expected fulfillment within the lifetimes of the Thessalonians. And what is the problem with that? The problem is that The Resurrection, and Judgment Day are also due to take place within this same time frame, the era of the temple. This would place The Resurrection and Judgment Day within the first century-- things that we know for sure did NOT happen. The end result? The Partial Preterist position, though giving it a good try, nevertheless fails to rescue the little lord Jesus from his false prophecies. Jesus still remains a false prophet to those that honestly consider the evidence, as he clearly predicted things which did not happen within the time frame he himself laid down.
What follows is a chart that compares these three sections of prophecy. Paul usually doesn't parallel any of the gospel stories, so to see how closely his two letters follow the script here is quite surprising. I wonder if I am the first to have noticed this? It is also another bit of evidence that this was the common teaching of the early church. I believe that, when laid side-by-side, it will become obvious to the casual observer that these three sections of prophecy are all referring to the same event. The Partial Preterists are wrong in believing these are not all referring to the same event, one event for the 1st Century, the other for thousands of years in the future. And that "event" includes the following:
¨ Destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
¨ The visible return of Jesus to earth.
¨ The so-called "rapture" of the saints.
¨ The Judgment of all evil men before the throne of God.
¨ The general resurrection from the dead of all mankind.
Needless to say, the FACT that you the reader are sitting around reading this sentence right now proves that the end did NOT come when it was predicted to come. And please don't bother criticizing me if I forgot to dot an "i" or cross a "t" in this brief but broad synopsis of Christian end-time myths. Christians themselves can't straighten out their own mess regarding the final scenario-- so don't expect us poor Atheists to do any better.
|
A Trilogy of Prophecy Shows These Three Books Are All Prophesying The Same Event |
||
|
Matthew |
1st Thessalonians |
2nd Thessalonians |
|
24:3) The sign of your coming. |
4:15) When the Lord comes. |
2:1) The coming of our Lord. |
|
24:9) (persecutions) |
|
1:4) (persecutions) |
|
|
|
2:8) The "man of lawlessness" is killed by the 2nd coming of Jesus. This was a FIRST CENTURY individual, and thus the 2nd coming is locked into the first century!!! |
|
24:15 The abomination, standing in THE holy place, i.e. the temple. |
|
2:3,4) The man of lawlessness, sitting in the temple. |
|
24:21) Great tribulation |
1:10) Retribution |
1:8) Dealing out retribution. |
|
24:21) Tribulation unparalled in history. |
2:16) Wrath to the utmost. |
|
|
24:22) Days of wrath cut short to preserve Christians. |
1:10) Jesus delivers us from the wrath to come. |
|
|
25:30) "Sinners" get cast into outer darkness. |
|
1:9) "Sinners" get eternal destruction away from Jesus. |
|
24:24) False wonders and signs. |
|
2:9) False wonders and signs. |
|
24: 4,5,24) False prophets and deceivers. |
|
2:2) False teachers and deceivers. |
|
24:27) Jesus as visible as a lightning flash in the sky. (i.e. extremely bright) |
|
1:7,8) Jesus revealed (i.e. made visible) from heaven (i.e. in the sky), in BLAZING FIRE (i.e. extremely bright). |
|
|
4:16,17) The dead in Christ shall be resurrected. |
|
|
25:31) With angels. |
|
1:7,8) With angels. |
|
24:30, 25:31) Great glory. |
|
1:10) Will reveal his glory. |
|
24:31) Trumpet blast. |
4:16) Trumpet blast. |
|
|
24:30) Jesus "coming on the clouds"(i.e. in the sky, the "heavens"). |
4:16) Jesus descending from heaven. |
|
|
24:30) Jesus in the clouds. |
4:17 Jesus in the clouds. |
|
|
24:30) ALL the tribes of planet earth will SEE with their eyes the 2nd coming. Not a local, or hidden, event. |
|
|
|
25:31+) All nations will stand before Jesus at his coming. |
2:19, 3:13) We will stand before Jesus at his coming. |
|
|
24:10) An apostasy precedes Jesus' return. |
|
2:3) An apostasy precedes Jesus' return. |
|
24:42) Keep awake! |
5:6) Keep awake! |
|
|
25:5) Some are sleeping. |
5:6) Some are sleeping. |
|
|
24:43) Will come like a thief in the night. |
5:2,4) Like a thief in the night. |
|
|
24:4) Let no one deceive you. |
|
2:3) Let no one deceive you. |
|
24:42) Which day your Lord is coming. |
5:2) The day of the Lord. |
2:2) The day of the Lord. |
|
24:37-39, 48-51) Sense of complacency, all is normal, precedes Jesus' return. |
5:3) Sense of complacency, peace & safety, precedes Jesus' return. |
|
|
24:40-42, 31) Christians gathered from earth up to Jesus / angels gather up Christians. |
4:17) Christians gathered from earth up to Jesus. |
2:1) Christians gathered from earth up to Jesus. |
|
24:39) Their destruction comes unexpectedly. |
5:3) Their destruction comes unexpectedly. |
|
|
25:5) Some Christians drowsy, asleep while waiting for Jesus. |
5:5,6) Don't sleep! Be alert. |
|
|
25:31-46) Judgment Day. |
3:13) Judgment Day. |
1:8,9) Judgment Day. |
A Cloudy Theory: The Invisible Jesus
Another feature of Preterism is the invisible Jesus returning to earth in 70 AD in invisible clouds. Easy to say, harder to prove. Also hard to back up from the Bible, as I will show that the Bible promises a visible Jesus returning amongst visible clouds.
The Preterists have a difficult time with the clouds mentioned in connection with the return of Jesus, because it is obvious that if Jesus were to return amongst the visible clouds of the sky, he could not be the invisible Jesus of the Preterist camp. Therefore the Preterists strive to rationalize this problem away by doing what a lot of other dishonest Christians also do when confronted with words they don’t like: they redefine. Clouds are visible by definition. Preterists need invisible clouds. Presto chango! Claim these are invisible, figurative, spiritual or whatever clouds, and the problem is solved.
But the problem remains, as they can not cite even one Biblical reference to back up their goof-ball contention. All clouds in the Bible are real clouds. There are no invisible clouds, such as are required by the Preterist position. They take plain verses, twist the hell out of them, speculate on "war clouds" and "ancient battles" and hope no one looks at their position too closely. They go through all sorts of mental gymnastics in an attempt to make those real clouds of Jesus' return go away. However, they have no more luck in that than do our weathermen on TV. Those pesky visible clouds just won't go away!
The fact is, there are no verses in the Bible promising an invisible Preterist Jesus returning to the Earth amongst invisible clouds. However, there are plenty of verses promising the opposite.
|
And then shall appear ((Only something that is visible may "appear")) the sign ((A sign that is invisible is no sign)) of the Son of man in heaven: ((This means the sky, obviously visible)) and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see ((They shall WHAT???? THEY SHALL SEE! With this, their invisible Jesus just "disappeared")) the Son of man ((Are clouds visible? Of course! Clouds are some of the MOST visible items of planet Earth, even visible from outer space)) of heaven with power and great glory ((Glory resulting from everyone seeing the wondrous event)). (Matthew 24:30, also Mk 13:26)
|
 |
Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up
((Why “up”? Because that’s where the real clouds of the real sky are when you’re on the ground!))
together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
((Clouds are found in the air- this is obvious to all, and I feel stupid for having to point out the obvious to people, but here goes: dear Preterists, these are REAL clouds UP floating around in a REAL sky))
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(1st Thessalonians 4:17)
Behold, he cometh with (the) clouds
((Sounds like everyday, normal clouds to me! If he meant something different, how would he then describe REAL clouds, if not in these same terms?????))
and every
(the word “every” would include every “spiritual” eye as well as every fleshly eye, thus giving the boot to the old “spiritual eye” excuse. The word “every” means “without exception” per Webster’s Dictionary. The Preterists, pro-dictionary when it supports their position, end up hypocritically arguing with the dictionary over this verse.)
eye
shall see him
((Gee! Just as clouds are very visible due to their being way up in the sky, so will Jesus also be visible, as he will be SEEN, by EYES, amongst the CLOUDS. It can't get much more specific than that! SEEN, by EYES, among CLOUDS- no invisible Jesus’ here!))
and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth
shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
(Rev. 1:7)
***************************************************
Every
N
 |
Will SEE Him | |
(Revelation 1:7)
***************************************************
And when he ((Jesus)) had spoken these things, while they beheld
((i.e. while they were looking with their physical, fleshly non-spiritual eyeballs))
he was taken up; and a cloud
((A WHAT? did he say a CLOUD???? I guess it was a VISIBLE cloud, as they wrote about it, and thus could see it.))
received him out of their sight.
((Only a REAL cloud could have blocked their vision. This was therefore no figurative cloud, nor a spiritual cloud. Notice also that most of the ascent of Jesus was visible. Not until Jesus reached orbital velocity was their vision blocked. Likewise, the return of Jesus is to be visible as well.))
And while they looked
((Looked with what? With their eyes!!! What kind of eyes? Eyes of “perception”? Eyes of “spiritual insight”? “Spiritual” eyes? No! They used their good old, fleshly, human eyes.))
steadfastly toward heaven
((Heaven, per the Bible, is where clouds are- i.e. the sky.))
as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in
white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee,
why stand ye gazing
(Once again, the fact of being visible is emphasized. One can not “gaze” at an invisible Jesus.)
up into heaven? This same
Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven,
shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
(Acts 1: 9-11)
It can’t get much plainer than this. As Jesus physically and very VISIBLY blasted off thru visible clouds into outer space,
“IN LIKE MANNER”
shall he visibly return thru visible clouds to Earth. For the preterists to read this verse, and totally miss what it’s saying, is strong testimony to their own self-delusion. In spite of this verse, they continue to teach that an invisible Jesus returned to the Earth in invisible figurative “clouds of war” in 70 AD. In light of the above verse, the only appropriate response I can think of to the theological hair-splitting of the Preterists is
HORSE SHIT!!!
(We are) looking
(How in the hell could they be out “looking” for something for which it is impossible to look for, i.e. an invisible Jesus returning to Earth? It is painfully obvious that a visible Jesus is what was promised.)
for the… appearing
(Let’s see… they are looking for the appearing… hmmm, sure sounds like something that would be visible. If I can “see” this, why can’t the Preterists???)
of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.
(This nails it down as a Second Coming passage. They are looking for a visible Jesus to return.)
(Titus 2:13)
Watch therefore; for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. (Mt 24:42 KJV)
Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour wherein the
Son of Man cometh. (Mt 25:13 KJV)
Take ye heed, watch and pray; for ye know not when the time is. (Mk 13:33 KJV)
Watch ye therefore; for ye know not when the master of the house cometh. (Mk 13:35 KJV)
And what I say unto you I say unto all, watch! (Mk 13:37 KJV)
(It is physically impossible for one to watch for something that can’t be watched. If the invisible Jesus of the Preterist theory is correct, Jesus is asking the impossible from his followers. Jesus may just as well have ordered them to piss in the corner of a round room as to expect them to view an unviewable second coming. You can only watch for that which is visible.)
Primitive Theories of Clouds
We tend to take for granted that knowledge of what clouds really are is common. Our problem is, we live in an era of routinely flying thru clouds in 747’s at 600 miles per hour, and not thinking twice about it. However, thousands of years ago, people had no good reasons to believe that clouds weren’t solid objects that could support weight. Hell, even most of us as kids day dreamed as much. Therefore, it’s not surprising to find statements in ancient documents that, when written, were written as literal, but since then have evolved into figurative due to advances in science. For example, in Psalms we find a reference to the Hebrew god using clouds as chariots:
Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind. (Psalms 104:3)
It seems to us to be figurative language, but remember: the concept of riding on clouds was not beyond the realm of possibility for the ancient Hebrew. Did they think of clouds as transportation for their god? Yes they did. Here is a verse that seems to be saying as much:
Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence... (Isaiah 19:1)
Please note that all of the clouds we've encountered so far have been real, actual clouds. We have yet to run into the invisible variety as required by the Preterist position. Let's look at some more clouds. You will see that these also were real, and very visible. In fact, if the children of Israel had the Preterist type of cloud leading them thru the wilderness (i.e. an invisible cloud), they all would have died in the desert the first month!
And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a (visible) cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire (visible fire) to give them light; to go by day and night: He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, [from] before the people. (Exodus 13: 21, 22)
This cloud was as visible and real as the clouds that Jesus spoke of. The Preterists need invisible clouds to support their theory, but I’m afraid we’ll not see any invisible clouds anywhere in the Bible!
Another verse adds to the evidence that these clouds were real and visible:
And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them: And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness [to them], but it gave light ((LIGHT! Visible LIGHT! Not invisible, but real)) by night [to these]: so that the one came not near the other all the night. (Exodus 14: 9 & 20)
The Old Testament apocrypha was accepted by the early church as authoritative writings. Even the New Testament quotes from them as an authoritative source, in Jude 14. The people that wrote the New Testament did not limit their study of scriptures to what we have labeled THE OLD TESTAMENT. That means that their usage of the word "cloud" would have also been influenced by how it was used in the apocrypha. Let's look at some examples from the apocrypha:
And they (angels) took me up onto their wings, and carried me up to the first heaven, and PLACED ME ON THE CLOUDS. And, behold, they were moving. And there I perceived the air higher up, and higher still I saw the ether. And they placed me on the first heaven. And they showed me a vast ocean, much bigger than the earthly ocean. (2nd Enoch 3)
Looking at the cloud below, doesn't it look like a god could just pick you up and put you on it, like the writer above wrote? Of course it does- ask any child. The people who wrote the Bible waaaaaaaaay back when thought so too, and didn't know any better. What, do you think they had airplanes to fly up there and see what the clouds were made of? Or meteorologists to scientifically analyze the clouds?
How many chariots has the Holy One? He has chariots of the cherubim...He has chariots of wind...He also has the chariots of swift cloud, as it is written, "See! the Lord comes, riding a swift cloud." He has the chariots of clouds, as it is written, "I am coming to you in a dense cloud." (3 Enoch 24)
And as I said these things a cloud came and seized me (NOTE: see Tornado below) and took me up again to the heavens. And I saw many judgments and I wept bitterly... (Greek Apocalypse of Ezra, 5:7,8)
Could the cloud above, a tornado, be something that the author is referring to? He writes "A cloud came and seized me and took me up to the heavens." Tornados are certainly proof that there are indeed clouds that are so physical, so non-figurative, that they can pick up not only individuals, but entire buildings as well. Of course, a Preterist would not be a good choice to have working at the local tornado warning facility, as his theology may demand he try to "spiritualize away" an incoming twister.
Along the same line as these, we find in Harper's Bible Dictionary2 that:
...clouds were experienced and perceived as an awesome manifestation of divine power by the Canaanites and ancient Israelites. The Ugaritic texts call the storm god Baal "Cloud Rider." Israel applied the same title to God.
So Biblegod & Baal share the same nickname, “Cloud Rider”. If the worshippers of Baal believed their god zoomed around on clouds that were literal, why would their neighbors USING THE EXACT SAME VERBIAGE, think those clouds figurative??? It is only the prejudice of the modern Christian for their Biblegod that excuses all such UN-scientific thinking found in the Christian scriptures, but condemns the exact same verbiage when found in non-Christian scriptures.
I think the problem is that we tend to look at this ancient book through the eyes of modern man. We airplane savvy people know by heart that clouds are very nebulous, and of no harm whatsoever to an airplane that flies straight into/through one. But why should we assume that ancient people, who had never touched a cloud, would know this? It is unreasonable to assume that out of all the ancient people who used terms like "riding on a cloud", only the Israelis understood it to be figurative. HOW, if they knew this to the exclusion of their neighbors, did they know this? Did they have airplanes? The same can be said for stars. They wrote of stars falling to the earth. Should they have known better??? Is there any way on earth they could have known about stars being billions of miles away, fired by nuclear fusion and propelled at enormous velocities through empty space? Of couse not! But we, with our almost unconscious feeling for science, reading through the spectacles of modern man, automatically translate all such Biblical passages into "Figurative Language." This is WRONG! We have to take these passages as THEY wrote them, not as we, thousands of years later, interpret them. We are merely reading back into the text that which doesn't exist, if these passages are forced into a modern context. It is cultural bias, and most people aren't even aware of it.
Conclusion
The Preterist theory is that Jesus’ second coming occurred in 70 AD. The Preterist theory can not exist without one turning a blind eye towards many clear and plain verses in the Bible, while leaving many questions unanswered. If they claim the second coming to be only a local event concerning Israel, then they must believe that the destruction of Jerusalem (a local event) killed more people than a world-wide flood. If they claim the second coming to be a world-wide event, why did nobody notice? And they can’t explain why, if the Second Coming was a local event only of concern to those in Jerusalem, why was Paul preaching to the Gentile Corinthians a thousand miles away that they needed to prepare for it??? They can’t explain away all the Second Coming verses in the New Testament that clearly state a very visible and public return, so therefore they instead twist the definitions around until the words cease to mock their stupid theory. They figuratize the literal, and literalize the figurative, using only the support of their theory as the criteria. Ignoring the fact that the ONLY signs in the New Testament are VISIBLE signs, they create a new species of sign: the invisible sign, created solely, once again, to support their theory. Partial Preterists ignore or try to explain away that fact that Judgment Day and The Resurrection are promised in the New Testament to take place concurrent with the return of Jesus. Neither of these happened in 70 AD. And their mutilation of the word “cloud” should earn all of them a hotter spot in their mythical hell. The contortions they resort to, to save their savior from being a False Prophet, would make any professional contortionist jealous. But in spite of all their tortures of language...
Pieces of the Preterist Puzzle just don’t Fit.
1) The Life of Jesus Critically Examined, David F. Strauss, Sigler Press, Ramsey, NJ 1994
2) Harper's Bible Dictionary, Harper & Row, San Francisco, 1985, p. 174)
Interesting Items on Preterism Raptured from the Internet
Sept 23, 2003Today @ 10:49 PM post located here
Daedalus Netwrk:
Socrates: Preterism isn't just an issue for Bible believers. The "Jesus was a false prophet" concept if true sends Christianity crumbling far quicker than the loss of a literal 7 day Genesis. I believe these claims have lead some to apostasy or kept other people from the faith including Mark Smith of www.jcnotforme.com whom says he departed from the faith because Jesus was a false prophet. Ultimately, a Messiah whom performed miracles and rose from the dead and was person 3 of the trinity but couldn't keep a promise would be strange indeed.
P.S. Just curious, have any Preterists bothered at a rebutal to the essay on Preterism at the site above?
********************
The above was taken from:
|
Contact Information
Set Free!
Email: JCnot4me@aol.com Web Page JCnot4me.com NOTICE: Any and all emails sent to SET FREE become the property of SET FREE to be used or displayed upon the web site of SET FREE however SET FREE decides, but don't worry, your email address will probably be deleted. Views contained in SET FREE represent the views of the authors. No implicit approval by SET FREE is to be assumed. |