Table of Contents
Everything Is Out of Context
Mike Jackson 3-13-03
Albert_9-19-04
Gracie8807__10-6-05
Everything Is Out of
Context
First
of all, everything you write is out
of context.
Mark Smith here} This is just too idiotic
to even respond to. But it does demonstrate a common Christian fault: they
seem to think that if they just SAY something, that somehow makes it so. They
don't have to provide any evidence or arguments or examples.
They seem to think they are gods that can speak things into existence "ex
nihilo" thus bringing the things they accuse me of into existence by the
magical power of their words. Guess what? IT DOESN'T WORK!!!
Paul
yelled at Peter in Gal. for not eating with the Gentiles. He would only eat with
them when His jewish friends were not around. Then when his friends came, he
didn't eat with the Gentiles because he was afraid of what his friends would
think. Second, all the things you are
writing about is based on a lie.
Mark Smith here} Since I'm basing my
writing upon the New Testament, I actually agree somewhat with you here!
The Roman Soldiers said that the disciples stole the body because the Sanhedrin
(High Court) told them to.
Mark Smith here} This is false. It wasn't
the Sanhedrin that said that. Rather, it was the author of The Gospel of
Matthew who claimed that the Sanhedrin said that. It is HIGHLY
unlikely this author, 50-plus years later, would know word for word what went
on in top secret meetings between the top leaders of the nation of Israel. The
FACT that the author PRETENDS to know what in fact there was no way in hell of
him ACTUALLY knowing, proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the author was
making up words and putting them into mouths.
The
Sanhedrin was afraid of rioting
and everything Jesus said, becoming true.
Mark Smith here} So, you have some inside
line or scoop 2000 years later on what the Sanhedrin was thinking? Again the
Christian practices "name it and claim it", that is, he thinks that just
because he ASSERTS something, somehow that makes it true.
The
truth is, the disciples who were afraid and left Jesus would not even go near
the tomb for fear of them getting
killed.
Mark Smith here} This is false, for one
gospel has Jesus' girl friends going to the tomb Sunday morning to do Jewish
rituals with the corpse. It doesn't seem like they were particularly fearful,
does it???
Why
would they go and steal the body of Jesus when there were 16 soldiers
surrounding it when they counldn't even stand next to Jesus when Judas betrays
him with a kiss?
Mark Smith here} Asking "why", 2000 years
later, people who are now long dead did something- when motivations of even
living criminals are often beyond our scope, this is a stupid question. Just
because the Apostles where chicken shits doesn't rule out them also being
sneaky and deceitful.
You
have to little resources and you need some more research. The Roman Soldiers
were scared and took the bribe yes. They said that the disciples took the body
because they were bribed into saying it. If they didn't say that, then they
would be killed. The Sanhedrin was behind them all the way. They said in Matt.
28:14 that they were behind them and would stand up for them.
Ed Email me at
Mike Jackson 3-13-03
Greetings,
I have a question. In The Roman Soldiers: "We Were There!" - In the middle
of the page, you wrote about two hands.
On one hand, we’ve got about 20 Roman soldiers, with no vested interest
to protect, no point of view to
defend, "they had not the slightest interest in the task to which they were
assigned" (McDowell, p. 218-224), with no reason to lie, and no prior known
instances of lying. They were the ONLY non-biased, NON-CHRISTIAN witnesses
to see how the body actually left the tomb. We have 20 eyewitnesses viewing
the tomb, at the very minute in question, claiming a perfectly believable
and reasonable explanation for the missing body. They claimed the Christians
somehow snuck in and stole the body. The only REAL eyewitnesses to the
actual event claim the whole thing WAS A HOAX!!! The Christians won’t claim
being AT the tomb when the body left it- they were supposedly miles away!
However, we’ve got 20 soldiers, EYEwitnesses, who testify the Christian
story is a lie. We’ve got brave soldiers guarding their post, who neither
fell asleep nor ran away, as either action would have cost them their lives.
These brave soldiers saw the Christians, possibly through deceit and guile
(the specialty of Christians), come in and steal the body away.
On the other hand, we have biased "Christian" men possibly in their 80’s,
writing strictly from memory about an event 50 plus years ago in their past.
Biased men with BIG vested interests and years of their lives invested in
the institution of Christianity. Peter, thinking it to be in his best
interests, trying to look good to Jesus, was the one who had promised (it
turned out to be a LIE) he would NEVER desert nor deny Jesus, that he would
rather DIE first, and ALL the rest of the disciples concurred, (Mt
26:33-35). Mere hours later, "they all left him, and fled" (Mk 14:50), and
Jesus was being led away alone to his bloody death, deserted by his cowardly
friends. While this is happening we find the liar Peter lying up a storm,
once again, when he thought it to be in his best interests. Peter, the
practiced boot-lick, was now trying to kiss up to the winners of the recent
struggle, just as he had hours before kissed up to Jesus, before Jesus
became a loser. He lied THREE TIMES IN A ROW, and even lied UNDER OATH!!!
(Mt 26:72) THIS is the quality of witnesses the Christians put forward to
"prove" the resurrection- a man who LIES UNDER OATH. Several weeks later
Peter the liar claims to be a personal witness to the resurrection (Acts
2:32), but who but an idiot would trust such an untrustworthy scoundrel? And
Peter, being the leader, "as cream rises to the top," was the best of the
lot! The others therefore must have been worse, if that’s possible. Years
later, well into the Christian movement, Peter and his cohorts were STILL
liars, "not straightforward about the truth of the gospel" (Gal. 2:14).
Your "first hand" has a problem. You mentioned that they have no reason to
lie. OK. The 20 witnesses were stationed at the gravesite to GUARD THE SITE.
NO ONE IN OR OUT! I can tell you have never been a soldier! Not only could
they not sleep, but no one could touch the gravesite. They are guarding a
tomb to prevent ANYONE to go in and steal the body. I agree that these are
professional soldiers facing death if they fail in their assigned task.
Mark Smith here} Who said if they failed
they faced death? If that were the case, every time the Romans lost a battle
they would all be executed. What I WROTE (as opposed to what you SAID I wrote)
was that they faced death if they had fallen asleep while on guard duty.
Now I really don't care who you quote before for or against Jesus being
risen
from the grave. I just can't believe that you think that these Roman
soldiers were not capable of falling asleep (a dereliction of duty) but they
were lured away (also a dereliction of duty). Both were punishable by DEATH.
Mark Smith here} Yes, they WERE capable
of falling asleep. But the penalty for so doing was death. Why are you having
such a problem understanding something so simple??? Maybe if you tried to
UNDERSTAND what I write, rather than just trying to NIT PICK, you might learn
something!
You say that "dereliction of duty" would result in
the death penalty, and you give no documentation to back this claim up. This
is STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE for Christians, isn't it? You guys make
assertions then don't back them up. Please notice that in MY article, almost
everything I say is backed up. Maybe you could please learn how REAL research
is done- you actually have to DOCUMENT and PROVIDE EVIDENCE- just "saying so"
does not MAKE it so.
Now your "second hand." It is so easy for you to quote scripture all about
the character of the people who started "Christianity". Well I guess you
forgot to read Mark's second writing known as The Acts of the Apostles.
Mark Smith here} Yes, unlike you
Christians, I happen to think that personal character matters. I happen to
think that it takes more than a glib "I'm sorry Jesus" to make a person a good
and moral citizen. Scumbag scuzzy dishonest people tend to stay that way, and
Peter certainly was one of these. The FACT that your religion was founded by
such a carpetbagger should give you cause for concern. After all, you
Christians rag on the Mormons for the moral shortcomings of Joseph Smith. So I
guess that BAD MORALS are OK for you Christians but not ok for everyone else.
Hypocrites!!!
You
didn't read the part marked Chapter 5 talking about the arrest of Peter "the
liar" and John for a second time. Now all they were doing is telling
everyone the Jesus was alive. Earlier they were threatened death and now
they faced the same thing. But what I am getting to is "Doctor" Gamaliel,
the teacher of the Law. He was not for these Jews causing trouble but what
he said was powerful. He first noted that there were 2 other uprisings that
when the leaders died, the uprisings failed.
He told the people that IF this
is not of Yahweh (God of Abraham, Isaiah and Jacob) that this uprising will
fail also but IF not, these people would be fighting against Yahweh. Guess
what? It didn't disperse. It hasn't gone away since. Many rulers have
tried
to wipe out the Jew and the Christian and never succeeded.
Mark Smith here} Wow! What logic! Let's
see... IF a movement lasts, THEN it's legit. Based upon that gem of reasoning,
Islam must be true! Mormonism too! And while we're at it, let's throw in
Jehovah Witnesses, Buddhism and Hinduism as well. Since you believe a religion
that WINS must be true, what do you make of the historic FACT that your
religion LOST all of North Africa AND the entire Middle East to the Muslims???
Where was your might Biblegod then??? What? Your religion GOT ITS ASS
KICKED??? Well, I guess therefore your religion must have been FALSE!!!
Now I ask you, when was the last time that you volunteered for a good
whipping? Or better yet, speak up for what you believe and face being
executed for your statements. I don't care if you are Christian or not. You
say, "THINK".
Mark Smith here} Yes, THINK. Who wrote
"The Book of Acts" wherein these stories were penned? Was it CHRISTIANS? Yes,
I do believe it was. Am I surprised that Christian "historians" made
themselves look good? No, I am not, no more so than Mormon "historians" always
make themselves look good. No, a good historian looks at the source material,
and tries to sift the truth from the lies, and a GOOD historian doesn't a
priori assume that the book he is reading is 100% true just because someone in
his own religion wrote it.
As for Peter being so "brave", why then in the Book
of Galatians he is scared shitless of even offending the prejudices of the
Jewish Christians??? He won't even stand up to that early version of the KKK.
What makes you think he'd stand up to any body else? THINK!!!
Well, dying for a cause is considered noble but usually that
goes with a weapon in hand. These people had no weapons. If you are even
half a respectable intellect, you have to stop and THINK. I don't care about
the screwballs that have stood up in the name of "Christianity" in the past
100 years. (Hitler used the Roman Catholic Church as an excuse to kill Jews
and Jew sympathizers.) Look at the FIRST 100 years. These people were killed
in almost every conceivable fashion.
Mark Smith here} Yes, your religion
started as, and still is, a "death and suffering" cult. You specialize in
making THIS life sooooo miserable that you just can't help wishing the NEXT
life would hurry up and begin. Just like some very old people have such a
miserable life- all the joy has been taken out of daily living via old age- so
too your cult deprives people of the joys of life, so that many of you welcome
the release from your (miserable) life that death offers. And that is why
during the beginning era of your cult, many Christians volunteered for
martyrdom. For one example, Eusebius reported where the Bishop of Ephesus
showed up at the arena and DEMANDED in person of the local Roman governor to
be executed. That would be the equivalent of our modern day "suicide by
police" where someone WANTS the government agents to hasten their death. Your
cult attracts suicidal losers- Jonestown had 900 examples of that- but that
doesn't prove their message, only their madness.
Admitting that they followed Christ in
Jerusalem meant a minimum of Loss of work, which meant starving to death.
The list of hardships for the first century Christian is rather endless.
Mark Smith here} Sorry, but that's more
of your cult's bullshit and public relations. Studies that have been done on
the actual extents and impacts of Roman persecutions during the first three or
four centuries indicate that there really weren't all that many killed. There
were periods of 50 - 75 years with no persecutions whatsoever, then maybe a
two year half-hearted "persecution" more for show than effect. And when there
were few persecutions, so many Christians jumped ship (remember Peter?) rather
than "die for Jesus" that the issue of what to do with these turncoat
Christians, once the persecution ended and they wanted back in the church,
became a major theological issue. Of course, I don't expect your local
preacher to be mentioning that, since it goes against the usually hype that
tries to glorify fanatical cult members dying for their superstitions.
You can do what you want with the "second hand". But before you go to
slamming someone on these 20 eyewitnesses, you ought to get your "first
hand" right. Either they were reliable Roman soldiers that did their job or
they failed and faced death. If the grave was empty… which you seem to agree
that it was in accordance to the “20 eyewitnesses” then they failed to do
their duty and faced execution. Don’t be lame, THINK and see the full
picture.
Mike
Mark Smith here} Mike, I DO think, and
that's why I no longer fall for your cult's brainwashing. The facts and
evidence go against, not for, your cult, and it's
only thru intensive and repetitious psychological reinforcements starting from
the cradle and lasting to the grave, that your "troops" are able to march on
to their loony beat. You won't find Atheists having to meet together 3 or 4 or
5 times a week to chant over and over "There is no god", or sing the same
songs every week for 70 years, or send their kids off to brainwashing school-
summer church camp and vacation Bible school. It's the Christians, not the
Atheists, that must constantly convince themselves. REAL facts don't need such
psychological boosters- for example, mathematicians don't have to repeat to
each other every week that 2 + 2 still equals 4. Christians, however, must
constantly remind themselves that "Jesus is Lord" and "God loves me" and such,
because deep down inside they know it's horseshit.
In conclusion Mike, I'd like to point out that you
have decided to IGNORE the entire forest of actual eyewitnesses that testified
your religion was founded upon a hoax, and instead concentrate on a few weeds
in the forest. Why don't you deal with the BIG issue here- that there WAS no
resurrection and there were eyewitnesses to PROVE it???
Albert 9-19-04
Subject: Hi
Date: 9/19/2004 1:09:27 AM Pacific Standard Time
From:
Reply To:
To: JCnot4me@aol.com
Hello Sir.
You may not remember me, I was the guy in the Rancho Cucamonga Star
Bucks. I was getting my coffee when you got my attention because you saw
something on my Cal Baptist University shirt. You dared me to go to your web
site and so just to see what it was, I did.
Mark Smith here} Your T-Shirt
said something about daring to be a Christian or check it out. Whatever. I
gave you one of my JCnot4me.com business cards and invited you to visit my
web site. You did. Thank you. You'd be surprised at the number of xtians who
won't even take my business card. A closed hardened mind is a terrible
waste.
I do not mean to offend you in any way, shape, or form but you do not
know what you are talking about.
I visited your site and it was full of things that are just not true.
The Bible is written in a poetic form and some of the things written in the
Bible are visions that prophets had. If you are to quote the Bible in any
way, you must do careful research.
By careful research I mean do not just look up words in a Bible
dictionary and translate them as you will. Do real research.
Jesus never
told his disciples that the second coming was going to happen in there life
time.
Mark Smith here} Now THAT is
just not true. Over and over and over not just Jesus, but his Apostles as
well, kept scaring people with the (we now know to be empty) threat of the
Second Coming within their lifetime. For any who doubt this, just check out
my essays on the topic:
False Prophet- Liar, Fraud!
http://jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/Second%20Coming%20stuff/jesus-liar_fraud.htm
If Anybody Else But Jesus...
http://jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/Second%20Coming%20stuff/Jesus-Joseph-Decker_files/Jesus-Joseph-Decker.htm
Jesus and His Expired Prophecies
http://jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/Second%20Coming%20stuff/Jesus_and_his_expired_prophecies.htm
Matthew 24 Verse by Verse
http://jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/Second%20Coming%20stuff/matthew_24_verse_by_verse.htm
Matthew 24:34 What The Scholars Say
http://jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/Second%20Coming%20stuff/Mt%2024-34_files/Mt%2024-34.htm
Significance of Jesus Being a False Prophet
http://jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/Second%20Coming%20stuff/significance_of_JC_false.htm
Preterism
http://jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/Second%20Coming%20stuff/preterism.htm
Nowhere in scripture does it talk about
a giant city floating in outer
space.
Mark Smith here} Revelation
21:2&16 is the text I included in my "The Universe According to the Bible"
cartoon. These verses say:
21:2} And I saw (3) the holy city,
(4) new Jerusalem, (5) coming down out of heaven from God, (6) made
ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
21:16} The city is laid out as a
square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the
city with the rod, [3] fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and
height are equal.
This city comes down out of the sky "out of heaven
from God". Not only that, I personally have heard Christians during church
testimony services swear that scientists have seen this city with their
telescopes heading towards earth. Maybe you should learn your Bible and your
religion a little better.
Your account of what the Gospel of Matthew says when
the Roman
solders told the story about the resurrection of Christ. This is what you
wrote. According to The Gospel of Matthew, a group of Roman Soldiers, via a
request by Jewish priests , had been assigned by the Roman governor to
guard the tomb of the recently deceased criminal Jesus. One night, while on
guard duty, the zombie Jesus popped out, the soldiers got scared, deserted
their post, ran back into the city, and reported to the Jewish priests &
rabbis. Matthew then claims that these priests & rabbis made up an excuse
for the soldiers to use, bribing the soldiers to claim that while they were
asleep, with their eyes closed, they saw the Christians come in and steal
the body. Or so The Gospel of Matthew claims. (Matthew 28: 4, 11-15)
This is what the Bible says happened.
The Guards where so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.
While the women were on their way, some
of the guards went into the city and
reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. When the
chief
priests met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the solders a
large sum of money, telling them, You are to say His disciples came during
the night and stole him away while we were asleep. If this report gets to
the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble. So the
solders took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has
been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day. (Matt 28:4, 11-15)
Here are the flaws to your report,
1. The solders never left their post.
They fell like dead men after seeing
the angel.
Mark Smith here} Then how could
they have left to enter Jerusalem to report to their bosses, AS YOU YOURSELF
JUST SAID ABOVE AND BELOW THE BIBLE SAID???
2. It was not a Roman problem. The Jewish priests requested that they be
put on guard, not the Romans. In fact the governor at that time washed his
hands as he was giving Jesus over to the Jews for him to be executed so the
Roman government would not have been involved.
Only some of the solders went
to the Jews not all of them.
Mark Smith here} See, you DO
admit soldiers leaving their post! Matthew 28:11 says the same thing:
Now while they were on their way, some of
the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all that
had happened.
3. The solders were backed up by the priests and the Pharisees so if there
was a problem they would back them up. Because there was no threat to the
Roman empire, the Roman empire did not care about Jesus.
4. The body of Christ was gone, why would they guard an empty tomb. Being
that only some of them went to seek help with this problem because they were
not trained on how to deal with a resurrection.
5. The Bible does not say that the solders were asleep. They fell like dead
men (symbolic). They were sacred of the angel and of Jesus so they fell in
shock.
6. The sleeping excuse was just that, an
excuse. Since they were backed up
by the Jewish religious leaders, they did not care what the excuse was
as
long as their problem was solved.
Mark Smith here} If you had read
my essay you know the whole sleeping excuse was 100% pure bunk. As I wrote
in the essay, that would be the LAST excuse ANY Roman soldier would use, for
the minute he used it he'd be executed. Therefore, they DID care what excuse
they used. Try doing better research before jumping to conclusions.
That was just a few thing I found wrong about what was on your site. I
understand if you are not a Christian and that is fine.
But do not take the
Bible, which you don't believe in and start twisting it and make it mean
what you want it to. You made several comments on how Christianity if
false
and all that but you are taking something which you don't understand or
believe in and basically making it sound false which is what you criticized
about Christians.
Mark Smith here} I never try to
make the Bible says what it doesn't. Don't have too. The Bible more than
hangs itself with its own words, just like Michael Moore did in his movie
9-11, letting people see the REAL Bush in Bush's own words.
I have my reasons for believing in God and I know He is real based on my
relationship with Him. Nothing on your
(or any one else) site would ever
make me turn away form God. If you don't believe in God that is your
business. Don't take the holy and incorruptible word of God for your own
personal agendas. Many people try to prove that God does not exist by using
the same methods and arguments you are using and they all have failed.
Mark Smith here} So there is no
amount of truth or evidence that would ever make you change your mind???
Thank you for being up front about your having a totally closed mind. Nice
to know that if ancient documents were unearthed tomorrow that totally
disproved your religion, you wouldn't care. You know, if I as an Atheist
were to say that nothing would ever change my mind about my Atheism, people
would condemn me. If a Mormon were to tell you no amount of evidence would
ever change his mind, you'd think that a bad thing.
Do you know what the word "hypocrisy" means???
Again, I am not trying to offend you in any way. I just hope that one day
you will realize the error that you are in and that hopefully one day you
will find the God that you proclaimed did not exist.
With Respect
Albert.
P.S. Starbucks is very delicious.
Gracie8807 10-6-05
Subject: Roman Soldiers
Date: 10/6/2005 7:57:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time
From:
Reply To:
To: JCnot4me@aol.com
"The guard numbered from ten to thirty men......they
were not the kind of men to jeopardize their Roman necks by
sleeping on their post...they were Roman soldiers,
not mere Jewish temple guards...The soldiers had very strict discipline...the
punishment for deserting one’s post was death...the fear of
punishments produced faultless attention to duty, especially
in the night watches...refusing to protect an officer
was punishable by death...one soldier who had fallen asleep on duty
was executed by being hurled from the cliff of the Capitolium...
(pp 218 – 224) "
We saw
the whole thing- we were there. Jesus didn’t rise from the dead, the entire
Christian story is a fraud. The Christians created a diversion, lured us out
of reach of the tomb, but not out of eyesight. We saw with our own eyes but
too late to stop them, the Christians running off with the body.
Resurrection? Hah! WE WERE THERE!
please note, both of these qoutes came directly from your
article. in the one you claim that the punishment for deserting one's post
is death. in the other you claim the soldiers admitted to being lured away
from their post. all twenty or thirty of them. please explain to me how this
is any different than their admitting to falling asleep, which was just as
punishable by death.
Mark Smith here} This is my
response} Firstly, being honestly deceived by sneaking lying
Christians (and who among us hasn't, at one time or another) is alot
different from taking a nap while on duty.
Lastly, I don't try to make sense of every detail
in a basically non-sensical book. With the Bible, you get what you get. The
Roman governor, having been warned of a plot by scheming Christians to steal
the body of Jesus, posted a guard to prevent it. That makes sense. The
Christians stealing the body, then showing it to ONLY CHRISTIANS as a
"resurrected body" makes no sense. Go figure.
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