How To Prove The Existence of God Mark Smith (May 2002) Where's the beef ???
"Blessed are the gullible, for they shall be deceived." -JC
I don't count being gullible as something
to aspire to. Christians oft times do. Therefore they go about trying to convert
Atheists the wrong way. Don't TELL Atheists about miracles- the best evidence
FOR a miracle IS a miracle! And don't TELL them all sorts of convoluted
contorted distorted philosophical gobbledygook that you CLAIM "proves" the
existence of your gods. Hell, by the time someone untangles one of those verbal
pretzels, you could prove ANYTHING. The BEST evidence FOR a god IS the
god! You gotta god? Don't hide him- bring him on! In other words,
********************
According to the Hebrew scriptures, Biblegod of the past (unlike our current Biblegod) was not afraid to prove his existence to the skeptical. Biblegod had Elijah conduct an experiment. According to the Hebrew Bible in1st Kings 18, Elijah conducted this experiment in front of hundreds of skeptical onlookers. Did Elijah ARGUE Biblegod into existence? No! Did Elijah PHILOSOPHIZE Biblegod into existence? No! Did Elijah offer "Five Good Reasons" to believe Biblegod existed? HELL NO!!! Instead, Elijah, in front of hundreds of skeptical onlookers, called down "fire from heaven" which settled the debate. According to the Hebrew scriptures:
Now THAT'S the way to settle the disagreement, and I guess it also lays to rest the Christian excuse of "not tempting the Lord" when it comes to making Biblegod prove himself. IF it was WRONG to demand cold hard PROOF of Biblegod's existence, the "fire from heaven" would have hit Elijah, NOT the wood! No more hot air arguments, no more geek-speak. Just "show me the money!". Just "Lay your cards on the table- I call your bluff." Biblegod (according to the Bible) wasn't shy about PROVING his existence back then, and the Bible says that Biblegod changes not- he is the same yesterday, today, forever.
THEREFORE, if it was a good and acceptable thing for him to prove his existence back then with "fire from heaven" it would be good for him nowadays as well, especially seeing how he's competing against a lot more gods than just Baal. The FACT that he DOESN'T offer up hard evidence nowadays such as fire from heaven is evidence itself that Biblegod never existed- the whole fire story of Elijah was just that: a story, just a bluff Christians use to scare people into the Kingdom. "Ohhhhh, our god used to kick ass, you'd better watch out, Mr. Atheist!!!" Oh yeah, we're hiding under our beds in fear, and "used to" are the operative words here- your whole religion is nothing but a bunch of "used to's".
Where's The Beef???
Let's get right down to it: where's the damn beef??? Christians are good at making claims, but not so good at backing them up. You Christians want a chance to prove your case beyond dispute? Here's your chance. In the words of President Dumbass, "Bring it on!".
Total Number
of Christians
ZERO
(gee, I wonder if that surprises anybody???)
Fact is, IF your Biblegod really existed, his existence would not be a matter of dispute. It would be as real as the sun above or the pavement below. There is no justification to be found within your Bible for the celestial game of peek-a-boo, hide-n-seek or whatever the hell game your Biblegod is playing on humanity. What has your great and powerful Biblegod (if he really existed) got to fear from us puny mortals that motivates him to hide his very existence from us? What is he scared of? Is he scared we'll beat him up? A REAL god would have no reason to hide his existence, but a make-believe god, made up by a group of religious fanatics, would have every reason in the world to "hide", for as soon as its followers are forced to reveal their god, they themselves will be revealed as frauds, for there never was a god to reveal in the first place.
Do we humans seek to hide our existence from the ants on the sidewalk? Do we shout down commands to them, inspire a few of them to preach to their fellow ants that unless they believe we exist they'll burn in a hell forever? And if we did so, why on earth would we then run to the nearest tree to hide our existence from them when we just made their salvation contingent upon their believing our existence??? Does this make any sense at all?
And where exactly in your Bible does it say that Biblegod must hide from humanity like a scared old lady from teenagers??? Where does it say that he must be invisible to all of our scientific instruments, and all of our human senses? Was he just a disembodied voice floating in the breeze in the "Garden of Eden" that Adam thought he heard, but wasn't sure? The fact is, the mighty "god" of the Christians does a damn good job of imitating a god that doesn't exist at all. Hmmmm.... maybe that should tell you Christians something, but then again, that would assume you've shut up long enough to actually listen, which is highly unlikely.
In your mythical “Garden of Eden” story the author has Adam and Eve never questioning the existence of Biblegod- they never had a good reason to- he was right there in their face. What they questioned was not that Biblegod existed or had said anything, but rather to obey, or disobey, what they had clearly heard Biblegod tell them face to face. This should be the same choice facing modern Atheists. The
existence of your god would never even have become an issue if he really
existed. A real God would not allow it, for how can we
Atheists be held accountable to obey orders from a being whose very existence we
see no evidence for? That would be a gross injustice on a cosmic scale. And
please, don't insult our intelligence by claiming that we Atheists DO
see the evidence, but we're just stubborn / dishonest / stupid / illogical
/ unreasonable / blinded / and all the other slanders and libels you Christians
use to insult us with. Believe it or not, we honestly and really don't see any
evidence for your Biblegod, and trust me: we've looked, more so than even most
of you Christians.
Let’s say a soldier of the Columbian army has received an order. Trouble is, the order was garbled during transcription, the currier who delivered the order can’t be trusted, and nobody in the entire army has ever seen, heard, or met the Major in Bogotá who issued the order. And let’s say the order is sending him on a very dangerous mission. He could likely end up getting killed. He thus feels very uneasy entrusting his very life to such a flimsy document, especially since no one’s sure the person who dictated the order even exists. He’s also doubtful of the man who delivered the order, knowing that in the past this man has made up orders and signed the Major’s name to them. And to top it off, he’s not even sure of exactly what the order is telling him to do, and no one seems able to help. Everyone he shows the order to seems to come up with different and contradictory interpretations. But one thing they all agree on is if he doesn’t follow the order exactly (whatever it may turn out to really say) he’s in big trouble. What’s this soldier to do? Deep down in his heart he doesn’t believe the order is legitimate. Yet his friends are telling him he must believe in the order, and obey it, or possibly face the firing squad. It appears to be a no-win situation. ************ Christians claim to have marching orders for us from “God” himself, yet we Atheists don’t even believe their “God” exists. None of us Atheists have ever seen, smelled, touched, tasted, or heard him. None of our scientific sensors have ever detected him, including radar, which at least picks up Santa every December 24th. We’ve been to the depths of the oceans and the glorious heights of space, and still no sign of “God”. How can Atheists possible follow orders from somebody we don’t even believe exists? Christianity claims to be the “courier” through whom “God” entrusted the delivery of his documents to humanity, yet knowledgeable Atheists know better than to trust a Christian “mailman”. Christians have been well documented1 in the past for doctoring the documents they claim are from “God”- changing some, even inventing others out of thin air. Knowing this fact of history, how can Atheists possibly trust orders delivered to us through such an untrustworthy courier? Christians claim we can look in their Bible to read these marching orders, yet Christians can’t even agree among themselves as to what these marching orders actually order. Confusion has reigned supreme ever since these documents were written, resulting in massive and hate-filled splits in Christendom: Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, and well over a thousand more. The reason for all this confusion? The Bible itself is confused 2. So how can Atheists possibly obey “marching orders” when the orders are so confused that even Christians can’t agree on what say? ********************* Christians, this is NOT how it’s supposed to be! Reality, and your world-view, don’t seem to be agreeing with each other. But for the sake of argument, I’ll pretend the Garden of Eden story actually happened. And in that garden, Adam and Eve had no doubts about the existence of Biblegod. The authenticity of Biblegod and what Biblegod had ordered were never in question; to obey or not obey was. Atheists, by definition, could not exist in the Garden of Eden. But they do exist nowadays, and we Atheists are being asked by Christians to somehow “believe” that a god (which we don’t believe exists) has issued orders (which we don’t believe are legible) that we must obey (to avoid a hell we don’t believe exists). Do you see the problem here? Let me elaborate. Let’s say a Christian answered his doorbell and was handed a utility bill for $10,000 from a man who claimed to represent some power company the Christian didn’t even know existed. What are the chances that the Christian would open up his checkbook and cut the guy a check? Does “snowball’s chance in hell” sound familiar? Yet this is the same situation Christians have placed us Atheists into when they knock on our door and shove their religion in our face. Most people who have a coffee cup sitting on the table in front of them believe they have a coffee cup sitting on the table in front of them. They don’t believe they have a talking miniature elephant on the table. They believe it’s a coffee cup based upon a preponderance of evidence that it’s a coffee cup. In fact, the evidence is so strong it’s a coffee cup that they would be considered insane to believe it was anything else, such as a live talking miniature elephant. Looking at the coffee cup, they can’t will themselves to believe it is anything other than what the facts show: a coffee cup, no matter how hard they try. And they would be lying to you if they told you they believed it was anything other than a coffee cup. Now, they could pretend it was a talking miniature elephant. In fact, the more childish and mentally immature they are, the better at pretending they would be. They could even get their friends to pretend along with them. Liberal amounts of alcohol could help facilitate this game of pretend. But even while pretending it was what it’s not, deep down in their inebriated hearts they would still know it was only a coffee cup. Likewise with us Atheists. We could pretend there is a god, we could even pretend along with you. But deep down inside, we can only really believe what we believe, and we believe based upon the evidence we see, and we see no evidence for your gods- and in reality, neither do you, or you would have used that evidence long ago to destroy Atheism. So when you Christians come up to us and want us to “believe” your Biblegod exists “and has a wonderful plan for your life” what are we to do? We can only believe what the evidence leads us to believe, and no amount of threats like “turn or burn” can change that. Do you Christians want us to lie to you that we believe in your gods when we see no evidence, or would you rather have us tell the truth and say we don’t believe in your gods? We don’t believe in your gods. So, if you Christians want us Atheists to “believe” all you need to do is present believable evidence. You don’t need to argue with us- show us the beef! You don’t need to pray for us- show us the beef! And you don’t need to slip into philosophical geek-speak. You need to show us. But so far you have failed, and us Atheists are constant reminders to you of that failure on your part. If the students aren’t learning, look at the teachers, not the students. Show us, don’t just tell us, for no amount of mere verbiage is going to convince a man that the coffee cup in front of him is actually a talking miniature elephant.
Where's The Beef???
Fact is, IF your Biblegod really existed, his existence would not be a matter of dispute. It would be as real as the sun above or the pavement below. There is no justification to be found within your Bible for the celestial game of peek-a-boo, hide-n-seek or whatever the hell game your Biblegod is playing on humanity. What has your great and powerful Biblegod (if he really existed) got to fear from us puny mortals that motivates him to hide his very existence from us? What is he scared of? Is he scared we'll beat him up? A REAL god would have no reason to hide his existence, but a make-believe god, made up by a group of religious fanatics, would have every reason in the world to "hide", for as soon as its followers are forced to reveal their god, they themselves will be revealed as frauds, for there never was a god to reveal in the first place.
Do we humans seek to hide our existence from the ants on the sidewalk? Do we shout down commands to them, inspire a few of them to preach to their fellow ants that unless they believe we exist they'll burn in a hell forever? And if we did so, why on earth would we then run to the nearest tree to hide our existence from them when we just made their salvation contingent upon their believing our existence??? Does this make any sense at all?
And where exactly in your Bible does it say that Biblegod must hide from humanity like a scared old lady from teenagers??? Where does it say that he must be invisible to all of our scientific instruments, and all of our human senses? Was he just a disembodied voice floating in the breeze in the "Garden of Eden" that Adam thought he heard, but wasn't sure? The fact is, the mighty "god" of the Christians does a damn good job of imitating a god that doesn't exist at all. Hmmmm.... maybe that should tell you Christians something, but then again, that would assume you've shut up long enough to actually listen, which is highly unlikely.
In your mythical “Garden of Eden” Adam and Eve never questioned the existence of Biblegod- they never had a good reason to- he was right there in their face. What they questioned was not that Biblegod existed or had said anything, but rather to obey, or disobey, what they had clearly heard Biblegod tell them face to face. This should be the same choice facing modern Atheists. The existence of your god would never even have become an issue if he really existed. A real God would not allow it, for how can we Atheists be held accountable to obey orders from a being whose very existence we see no evidence for? That would be an gross injustice on a cosmic scale. And please, don't insult our intelligence by claiming that we Atheists DO see the evidence, but we're just stubborn / dishonest / stupid / illogical / unreasonable / blinded / and all the other slanders and libels you Christians use to insult us with. Believe it or not, we honestly and really don't see any evidence for your Biblegod, and trust me: we've looked, more so than even most of you Christians. You want us to believe? Come up with solid evidence. But you'll settle for us pretending? Sorry, we’re not children anymore.
Imagine There's No Heaven.
It's Easy if You Try.
...Imagine All
The People, Living For Today. *(New Testament, 1st Corinthians 15: 13-19 TEV)
***************************** 1) The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, by Dr. Bart D. Ehrman, Oxford University Press, 1996 paperback, ISBN # 0195102797 *** Also see my paper elsewhere on this web site: How Firm A Foundation- Of Forgeries 2) See my essay in this website: God Is Not The Author.
Notes to Christians Battling Atheists
Responses to How To Prove The Existence of God
For more on Biblegod hiding out, see also: http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/burningbush.html (offsite)
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