Table of Contents
The Boob Heard Round The World
Father_Nathaniel@yahoo.com February 8, 2004 I am always astonished that fundies don't care about seeing people blown to bits, shot to pieces, stabbed, choked, and killed or maimed any number of ways on TV or in movies...but show any nudity or sex and they go BALLISTIC! There is something basically very screwed up...totally ass-backwards....with this line kind of "thinking". Such people are not quite sane.
Subject: Regarding 9-11 So, you want someone to touch this with a ten foot pole huh? Well, here I go. As you quoted "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." James 4:17 (KJV) Well, have you ever heard the phrase "the Lord works in mysterious ways"? If you have, you can take it into consideration when it comes to the 9-11 attacks. You see, on the morning of September 11, God knew what was going to happen, and he let it happen because he had a reason for it. Being God, he can see the future that we can't see. He can see the good that will come out of it. Just look at Iraq now. Once they were under the tyranny of Saddam Hussein, but now they are free from his hand because: terrorists from the middle east blew up the World Trade Center, we decided to get the terrorists behind the attacks, we went to war (i'll talk about that at another time), and we got Saddam out of power and liberated the Iraqi people. And from what I've heard, the Iraqi people are very grateful for what we've done for them. So you see, if the World Trade Center hadn't been attacked, Iraq still would have been under the rule of Saddam Hussein. So what seems bad at the time, can turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Look at all the good things that have come out of it so far, now imagine how much more good will come in the future. So just because it seems that it was the most horrible thing in the world at the time, a lot of good has already come out of it.
Subject: Regarding 9-11 (part 2) As sick as it may sound, the 9-11 attacks happened for good to come from it. And like a lot of other things, some sacrifices must be made. The sacrifice for liberating Iraq was, unfortunately, over 3,000 innocent lives. And I'm not saying that I don't care, I just understand that sometimes, sacrifices must be made. But look at how Iraq is doing now, they are going to have their first Presidential election this year and it's all thanks to those people who lost their lives in the WTC. I see the victims of 9-11 as heroes. They were "the sacrifice" to eventually lead to freedom in Iraq. I hold every one of those 3,000+ victims of 9-11 in the highest regard for losing their lives to eventually liberate Iraq. I know that it was a terrible tragedy for all those people to have to lose their lives, and I felt their pain as best I could (I live in CA), but I also know that "all things work together for good to those who love God" (Romans 8:23). So even though 9-11 was a terrible tragedy, it led to a free Iraq. It's not sick to be proud of those who lost their lives for freedom, even if it's for another nation.
Hello again Mark, I was cruising through your website again, it is rather interesting and attention-getting, and decided to take you up on your oft-repeated offer to debunk you. So, let's start here, shall we? God Bless America!
"Biblegod" is directly responsible for those terrorists commiting their
foul deed? It was His hand at work? Motivating those men to
throw their lives and the lives of each of the passengers, crew and people in the towers and Pentagon away in such a manner? Please, Mark, only a "hyper3-Calvinist"* would make such a claim. You're an atheist, remember? There is, according to you and your fellow a-theists, no God and therefore He cannot be blamed for such an act. It is only the men and their deluded minds to blame. Mark Smith here} There is no Biblegod outside the covers of that book, therefore no, Biblegod did NOT make these people do anything. However, for those people that actually still DO believe in Biblegod, the following would be a fact: Biblegod did not STOP these people from doing their evil deed. Biblegod had a chance to do good, and did it not, therefore, according to James, Biblegod sinned. As I wrote in my editorial: Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (James 4:17 KJV)
I put THAT piece of scripture in, tied it into 9-11, and no one- including you- wants to touch it with a ten foot pole. I notice you don't say squat about it anywhere in your email to me. You say nothing because you have nothing to say- your make-believe god is condemned by his own book, and there's nothing you can say to get him off the hook. Unfortunatley, if you ask Arthur C. Clarke, he'll tell you that they were insane because of their adherence to any religion. As any semi-informed person or regular watcher of Law & Order can tell you, insane people are not responsible for their actions and unable to be held so. Again, be reminded that as an a-theist, there is no God and now, consequently, no one to blame. Unless, of course, you have a standard of judgement for right and wrong that can co-exist without any god, whatsoever, and be perfectly binding upon one and all. Anything else is just so much relativistic crap that we shall, as men of education and some intellect, give no further mention to it. Mark Smith here} As I've already written in my web page on Morality, I'm still waiting for ANY Christian to give me one, just one moral rule of prohibited human behavior that is wrong in ALL ages, in ALL circumstances. I'm only asking for one example of one of the "absolute" morals you guys brag about all the time. Fact is, you don't have any. Christian morality is no more absolute than Atheist morality. It is ALL situational. With so many of my fellow Americans
slapping "God Bless America" decals all over everything, it makes me stop
and wonder. I wonder about the poor quality of "Blessing America" Biblegod did
on September 11th, 2001, as he sat on his holy hemorrhoids and did nothing
to "bless" America. Seeing how he did such a piss-poor job at "blessing" us
then, what makes these God Blessers think he'd do any better in the future? - If, you as an a-theist make the
claim that "Biblegod" did such a poor job on September 11th, what should He have
done? And why? What obligation had He to do anything whatsoever? What is the
basis of your answer, without resorting to what He owes you or anyone else? If
that is your only recourse, why does He owe you? What have you done that the
Creator of the Universe should give a good sniff over? He is the omnipotent One.
He is the omniscient One; you are not Jim Carrey and this is not a movie. Mark Smith here} Why did you miss my point 100%? My question was, WHY were so many Christians asking their Biblegod to "bless America" when Biblegod fucked up so badly in the first place???? Why don't you try dealing with my points rather than trying to build a straw man to knock down??? Answer the damn questions I've already raised, rather than running away from them.
[Of course, as you have considered
your answers to these questions, answer then this one for me if you would be so
kind: why are you answering questions about the nature and character of a person
you "don't believe in" as if you really did, but you just didn't like Him?] Mark Smith here}
Because there are deluded people like YOU that really DO believe this cosmic
Easter bunny really exists, and as long as you guys manage to mess things up for
the rest of us, your delusions must be dealt with. Tell me this: if a deluded
madman believed a giant cosmic frog told him to kill you, wouldn't you be trying
to convince him to drop said belief??? Let's say you're the guy in the
neighborhood with the pool. Last Saturday, you asked your neighbor Joe Hovah to
be the lifeguard for all the neighborhood kids as they swam, so you could run to
the store for a six pack. When you got back, ambulances were leaving your house.
It turns out that four kids had drowned while you were gone. It also turns out
that Joe Hovah had witnessed the whole thing, and just let it happen. He sat
there, watched the kids struggle to stay above water, watched each kid go under,
and didn't even get out of his seat. He even filmed the whole thing with his
camcorder while it was happening, so he could enjoy watching it again and again. - Let' s not and say we didn't
build a straw man argument. Nobody ever set the nations up and
then handed them off to God to "look after". Logical fallacy. Mark Smith here} Fallacy my ass. The argument hits the Christian nail dead nuts on the head, and that is why you try to just slough it off with a cute quip. The analogy is almost a perfect match, and reveals the uselessness of your gods. Instead of calling it a "logical fallacy" why don't you do something unique: SHOW me how it is such??? (Gee, there's a concept! Actually getting Christians to back up their accusations with more than hot air!!!)
- What responsibility does God have
for the actions of men, purposed to do evil in their hearts? Perhaps, you should
also give serious consideration to the simple fact that the foreign policies of
the United States of America are not the wonderful "warm and fuzzies" the
leadership of this country in toto would have us believe. Perhaps, in the
interest of reaping huge and vast profits at the expense of thequality of life
experinced by so many foreigners in their own lands, that they felt they
had no other recourse but this. Perhaps, the US simply took one on the chin from
the little fellow it had been pushing around for some time. I do not say that
this is the case or that those events were warranted, I merely say that this is
a possibility that you have failed to address in your "rush to judgment." If you
wish your argument to have any merit, you must
address that issue or be found owning a weak position. Otherwise, you enter the
realm of "The Problem of Evil." Will you then shake your fist a a God you
claim not to believe in and say that He is responsible for the evil in the
world? Mark Smith here} No, I won't shake my fist at fantasies. But I will hold up for public exposure the fact that you guys worship a do-nothing god, a god who wouldn't even get off his lazy ass and cause the pilot of the hijacked plane to sneeze at the last minute and miss the building. That's all it would have taken- a mere sneeze, and Biblegod couldn't even take the time away from counting hairs to do that. Some god you guys got!!!
If you were to ever
again ask Joe Hovah to be lifeguard for the kids in the pool, you'd be
considered a fool who doesn't learn from his mistakes. Yet this is exactly
the same mistake Christians of America are making with their Biblegod. They are
asking this do-nothing god to do what he was too lazy or stupid to do on
September 11th; that it, "bless America". For on September 11th, Biblegod
knew the right thing to do, the good thing, and he did it not. - Again, what is it God was
supposed to do? A bolt of lightning through the plane, so precise that only the
terrorist/hijackers were taken out? Meteorites, perhaps, ala Joshua? Why? What
has this nation done to deserve such supernatural protection? Is it the way He
is honored throughout the land, the depth of the people's mediation upon the
Cross and the Resurrection, the "In God We Trust" on every dollar bill? What? Mark Smith here} What was your fictional god supposed to do? How about what the Book of James said: "To him who knows TO DO GOOD, and does it not, to him it is sin." Would it have been too much to expect of a god to do good, to actually follow his own damn rules??? Why are you so blind to this? Oh, I forgot: love is blind, and you're in love with Biblegod. I get it now- your gods can do no wrong, no matter WHAT they do or don't do. Your gods could come down and piss and shit in your mouth, and rather than stand up for yourself, you'd wimp out and say "Thank you sir may I have another sir!!!".
- What would have been the right thing to do and what is your authority for such a demand? You say that "For on September 11th, Biblegod knew the right thing to do, the good thing, and he did it not." but you do not say what the "right" thing is to have been done. Mark Smith here} Oh, I'm sorry- I forgot how MORALLY BANKRUPT you Christians are. You really have no clue as to what the right thing would have been that day, do you??? Sad, so sad, that what is common sense for the VAST majority of normal people, you Christian geeks are totally blind to. Let me see.... maybe the right thing would have been to PREVENT 3,000 PEOPLE FROM BEING SQUISHED TO DEATH LIKE BUGS UNDER TONS OF CEMENT FLOORING- how's that for starters???
You also make mention of the "good" thing. What is your basis for such a judgement of "good" and "bad"? Next thing you know, you'll be telling me what is "right" and what is "wrong", jamming your "religion" down my throat! Your basic assumption, your presupposition, Mark Smith here} Aha!!!! At last the Christian geek shows his true colors!!!! I wonder why it took him so long to come out and expose his real beliefs??? He's a dyed in the wool, southern snake handling presupper, yessiree bob!!! Anything Van Till or Bahnson said or farted, yessir, that's pure true gospel. Yup, we Christians invented morality and have a patent on it, and no one else is allowed to use it without our permission.
is that you personally, Mark Smith of Orange County, CA, know all with such an apprehension that what was allowed to happen wasn't good and there was something else to be done You fail to address the fact that one plane failed to make its journey simply because those onboard stood up to the hijackers and, surrendering their own lives, prevented more death and destruction. You fail to mention that in its response to the September 11th Attacks, the USA has proceeded to kick some serious @$$ in regards to terrorists and their sponsors worldwide. Or don't you think that removal of the Taliban and sending that fine specimen, Osama, on the Run was valuable to our very security and way of life? Mark Smith here} Oh yes, let your warped sense of values flow forth for all to see! Tell us all how it was a GOOD thing for 3,000 Americans to die that day! And while you're at it, you morally perverted cold-hearted religious fanatic, go ahead and tell us what a good thing it was for Hitler to kill 6 million Jews ("It allowed Israel to be born!!!"). You have the same deadness of feelings the inquisitors had when they tortured people "for their own good". Sick, so very very sick, and totally and arrogantly blind to the sickness.
Do you honestly think that there will be any serious effort to
attack us now, knowing that this country doesn't take to kindly to being sucker
punched. Remember a little thing called Pearl Harbor? Had you breathed air in
1941 would you have then asked "Where was God blessing this country on the
morning of December 7th?" Because this nation has been the leader of the free
world ever since opening up a serious pair of cans in Europe and the Pacific. Do
not make the mistake of believing that freedom is free, nor hold the belief that
once inluxury and safety, always in luxury and safety. [This would be an
excellent time to remind you about Veteran's Day coming up. Don't forget to
thank a vet, especially combat vets, for the awesome service they have rendered
to this nation and its people.] You have already made the error of judging a
matter without it having run even a large portion of its course and this is not
very well suited to argumentation, only demagoguery and emotionalism. [Of course, as you have thought
through your answers to these questions, answer then this one for me if you
would be so kind: why are you answering questions about the nature and character
of a person you "don't believe in" as if you really did, but you just didn't
like Him?] - Consider this verse, it has helped me to be silent when I would have otherwise flapped my gums without discretion: Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. Pro 17:28 KJV It is important for us to know when to judge a matter and when to hold our tongues and wait. Jumping the gun usually only produces embarrassment. Believe me, I know. Well, I hope you enjoy this and I do appreciate you taking the
time to read my response to your editorial. Mark S. Williams
Scott Piland 6-17-03 RE Peter The Liar
This is quite notable in and of itself. You have
In addition, your short article is
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